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Sri Lanka Equity Forum » Stock Market Talk » In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage

In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage

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1 In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:08 am

lokka1


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
There has been a lot of criticism of Mr. Ashok Pathirage recently over the IPO pricing of SHL shares. At the outset let me say that I also bought at the IPO price and has incurred a huge loss. However, I believe that Mr. Pathirage is trying to do the right thing by the employees and the investors by encouraging his directors to buy and also setting an example by buying shares in SHL at current prices. This is the only thing he can do in addition to declaring a good dividend soon! So keep the faith in the stock as my prediction is that it will shortly surpass the IPO price. The fundamentals are good and what he has done with Health care and Insurance makes business sense. The earnings forecast are good and credible. It is a good time to average your cost by buying now and hold for the longer term. I did that and I know I will not regret it in a few months.
Lokka1

2 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:13 am

Genting


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
How I see is this situation is due to unethical behavior of Carson group. They are supposed to be investors, not traders who sells shares on the first day. If anyone knew they they are going to be like that, no one wold have offered them shares.

Seems like they have sold almost all of their shares. So I don't think SHL will come down in the near future.

The other comment I like to add is regarding Pathirage purchasing of shares.

Its not only Pathirage, Dammika also has been purchasing shares of his company. He bought 1mn @ 33.50 when it was falling from 38.

I think Pathirage is clever, purchasing from Carsons, who made the price bellow the IPO price.

3 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:26 am

Investor99


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
If shares are purchased via Private Placement or IPO the purchaser has the right to sell the shares at any time they want no one can object about it basically it’s their right.

Directors of a company should not be allowed to purchase shares of their own company before the financial results are out or if they possess information that might changes the share price which is not public.

4 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:00 pm

Rajitha

avatar
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
@lokka1 wrote:There has been a lot of criticism of Mr. Ashok Pathirage recently over the IPO pricing of SHL shares. At the outset let me say that I also bought at the IPO price and has incurred a huge loss. However, I believe that Mr. Pathirage is trying to do the right thing by the employees and the investors by encouraging his directors to buy and also setting an example by buying shares in SHL at current prices. This is the only thing he can do in addition to declaring a good dividend soon! So keep the faith in the stock as my prediction is that it will shortly surpass the IPO price. The fundamentals are good and what he has done with Health care and Insurance makes business sense. The earnings forecast are good and credible. It is a good time to average your cost by buying now and hold for the longer term. I did that and I know I will not regret it in a few months.
Lokka1

Sure giving people he shares at Rs 29 and buying back from them at Rs 21 is surely doing the right thing man! Specially when IPOS meant to be introduced at a discount!!

The best way to check a person misguiding or a stupid one in SL market is saying great fundamentals and then paying for that share in PE ratios of 30-100!! Why don't you buy some JKH shares from one of my friends around Rs 350 ? They have great fundamentals and it has traded around that price before!!

5 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:11 pm

player

avatar
Moderator
tell me what makes big impact,CROSSINGS OR BUY FROM MARKET?
what he does?
its my answer,if bought from market what will happened to share price? Question but whet he did Exclamation

6 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:54 pm

smallville

avatar
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@lokka1 wrote:There has been a lot of criticism of Mr. Ashok Pathirage recently over the IPO pricing of SHL shares. At the outset let me say that I also bought at the IPO price and has incurred a huge loss. However, I believe that Mr. Pathirage is trying to do the right thing by the employees and the investors by encouraging his directors to buy and also setting an example by buying shares in SHL at current prices. This is the only thing he can do in addition to declaring a good dividend soon! So keep the faith in the stock as my prediction is that it will shortly surpass the IPO price. The fundamentals are good and what he has done with Health care and Insurance makes business sense. The earnings forecast are good and credible. It is a good time to average your cost by buying now and hold for the longer term. I did that and I know I will not regret it in a few months.
Lokka1

Suppose if everything Mr.Pathirage had done were good, there are things that he's not looked at before launching the SHL IPO in a bear market like this. The pricing of 29 was utterly absurd thinking while the private placement was at 7.20..
Whoever (the ppl who did the pricing to be precise with) who had thought that there are idiots in SL to buy overpriced IPOs were winners in such thinking as u can see that such assumptions have been proven correct.. Then the big boss him self had to purchase from bottom level to boost it up or its not a mere patriotic act and moreover he had done it to earn some extra cash out of poor retailers including his own employees..

SHL employees, who may have had no knowledge of IPOs or share market might've bought these thinking of earning a quick buck.. Assurance have been given providing loans (as I heard) by the Softlogic Finance for these poor chaps to buy shares, besides they've been alloted a good percentage as well Wink

Now its not late to think that ppl who got this in a PP had sold out at 16 levels as its more than 100% already.. There are news we can here that CARS group had cashed in their lot.. (Now I wont be surprised if CARS group's EPS goes up big time)

Even after many seniors in this forum highlighting the cons of the SHL pricing, if any of the forum members bought this shares omitting that utter truth, they'll be seeing the short term down turn of this share..
And ppl who had done some homework seeing these posts might've collected at 16-20 level (like the big boss) and could be waiting for the next hike to sell it off despite its hitting or not the 27, 29 or above..as even 25 in fact is bringing them a decent profit Wink

7 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:01 pm

nkalansu


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
There are posts in this forum that says Employees of Soft has been given loans by the S.Finance company to purchase IPO shares. Is this true? At what interest?

8 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:45 pm

salt

avatar
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@Rajitha wrote:
@lokka1 wrote:There has been a lot of criticism of Mr. Ashok Pathirage recently over the IPO pricing of SHL shares. At the outset let me say that I also bought at the IPO price and has incurred a huge loss. However, I believe that Mr. Pathirage is trying to do the right thing by the employees and the investors by encouraging his directors to buy and also setting an example by buying shares in SHL at current prices. This is the only thing he can do in addition to declaring a good dividend soon! So keep the faith in the stock as my prediction is that it will shortly surpass the IPO price. The fundamentals are good and what he has done with Health care and Insurance makes business sense. The earnings forecast are good and credible. It is a good time to average your cost by buying now and hold for the longer term. I did that and I know I will not regret it in a few months.
Lokka1

Sure giving people he shares at Rs 29 and buying back from them at Rs 21 is surely doing the right thing man! Specially when IPOS meant to be introduced at a discount!!

The best way to check a person misguiding or a stupid one in SL market is saying great fundamentals and then paying for that share in PE ratios of 30-100!! Why don't you buy some JKH shares from one of my friends around Rs 350 ? They have great fundamentals and it has traded around that price before!!

+ from me. People never understand

9 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:29 pm

Rajaraam


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Under any circumstances we cant justify Softlogic IPO pricing and his action to sell shares at 29/- and buy at 20/- level at the cost of the invester.Big damage to a good name.

10 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:26 pm

Liber Abaci


Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
[quote="smallville"]

Suppose if everything Mr.Pathirage had done were good, there are things that he's not looked at before launching the SHL IPO in a bear market like this. The pricing of 29 was utterly absurd thinking while the private placement was at 7.20..

I am somewhat confused about the above statement , specially the use of words "good ' and " utterly absurd ". What's the yardstick in applying these words ? If someone make a good financial decision , he will earn a profit , and if someone make an utterly absurd financial decision , he will incur a loss. Are we commenting on Mr Pathirana's position or our position ?

SHL employees, who may have had no knowledge of IPOs or share market might've bought these thinking of earning a quick buck.

As you have pointed out at the bottom, share trading is for knowledgeable people. Yes.... always there are people who think , from their past experience that they can earn a quick buck always. If that went wrong who made the absurd decision ?


There are news we can here that CARS group had cashed in their lot.. (Now I wont be surprised if CARS group's EPS goes up big time)

It seems CARS group has made a "good " decision. An investor also can make a " good ' decision by buying CARSONS now.

So... is there any basis to criticize.. , blame.. , ridicule.. Mr Pathirana's decisions ?

11 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:47 pm

smallville

avatar
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@Liber Abaci wrote:
@smallville wrote:

Suppose if everything Mr.Pathirage had done were good, there are things that he's not looked at before launching the SHL IPO in a bear market like this. The pricing of 29 was utterly absurd thinking while the private placement was at 7.20..

I am somewhat confused about the above statement , specially the use of words "good ' and " utterly absurd ". What's the yardstick in applying these words ? If someone make a good financial decision , he will earn a profit , and if someone make an utterly absurd financial decision , he will incur a loss. Are we commenting on Mr Pathirana's position or our position ?

SHL employees, who may have had no knowledge of IPOs or share market might've bought these thinking of earning a quick buck.

As you have pointed out at the bottom, share trading is for knowledgeable people. Yes.... always there are people who think , from their past experience that they can earn a quick buck always. If that went wrong who made the absurd decision ?


There are news we can here that CARS group had cashed in their lot.. (Now I wont be surprised if CARS group's EPS goes up big time)

It seems CARS group has made a "good " decision. An investor also can make a " good ' decision by buying CARSONS now.
So... is there any basis to criticize.. , blame.. , ridicule.. Mr Pathirana's decisions ?

Friend, U've totally messed up the meaning of my writing.. Let me try writing this in simple..

I said, suppose (ok.. if we assumed) if EVERYTHING Mr. Pathirage had done were GOOD (as stated on the original post), the part which he had gone wrong was the IPO pricing.. That decision was
Utterly (completely, absolutely) Absurd (ridiculous or nonsense) And.. ah I was talking abt the IPO pricing not about Mr. Pathirage or us.. Definitely if we'd applied for this IPO then the ppl who made this utterly absurd mistake was US.

To ur second question, I'm not saying only knowledgeable ppl should do share trading, any1 can.. only difference is ppl who dont study the share market and invest may need help from someone else otherwise u know where the dumb money goes.. Further if ppl are knowledgeable and use their past experience would anybody buy a share worth 7.20 to the company paying 29 rupees thinking that a quick buck can be earned? What kind of professionalism or maturity is that?

Yes Cars group has made a good decision.. But I wont buy CARS group shares for this..

So...u can see there is a basis to criticize, blame, ridicule.. Mr Pathirana's decisions IPO decision ? As a risk taker he's come up big in life.. His skills are superb.. no doubts.. I only made a point about the decision of IPO pricing not about his investment strategies or any other business..

12 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:04 am

Liber Abaci


Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
[quote="smallville"][quote="Liber Abaci"]
@smallville wrote:



Thank you for the further clarifications, and I'm sorry, if I messed up the "meaning of your writing ". Since the "meanings" are still not clear to me , even after your clarification, I hope you won't mind taking this discussion little further.

You are of the opinion, that

The part which he had gone wrong was the IPO pricing.That decision was Utterly (completely, absolutely) Absurd (ridiculous or nonsense)


Now, let us look at the timing and fundamentals of this IPO decision.

1.At some stage in the recent past , Board of Directors of Softlogic , has made a decision to expand operations and to raise funds through a private / public issue of new shares of the company. Since Mr Pathirana as chairman and major shareholder , is the ultimate decision maker, we will refer only to him.

2. At a partucular day in the past, Mr pathirana has decided the offer price @ Rs 7.20 per share, and have offered ..... no. of shares to certain private investors ,and after making their own evaluations and judgement all or some of the private investors have fully contributes to the private placement. since the PP has been fully subscribed Mr Pathirana's judgeemnt on share price , was beneficial to Softlogic and he proceeded with the next action.

3. at a particular day after 2 above , Mr Pathirana has decided, based on some new facts and forecasts , the intrinsic value of the share to be Rs 29/- , and has offered ....no. of shares to general public through CSE. Mr Pathirana has given certain information relating to the company and its business through The Prospectus , (accepted by the regulator). In addition to the information given in the prospectus ,he clarified, through press conference and newspapers , his reasons for pricing shares @7.20 for the private placement , and pricing of 29.00 for the public issue

4. Some members of the general public including Fund Managers , Institutional investors and individual investors have contributed to the public issue @rs 29.00 after carefully going through the Prospectus and subsequent clarifications /disclosures on IPO price , of Mr Pathirana. Before making the decision , they have carefully studied the information available to them, examined the background of the company, it's past financial performance, it's current business standing, future prospects of the company and the industryand ....Country situation etc, . As implied by most of the Forum members, probably they have taken into account the future happenings of Asian Financial markets , Greece, debt ceiling issue in US as well.

5.The IPO has fully /over subscribed . The Company, Softlogic has raised targeted fund requirement through private / public placement , and now in a position to implement its plans to achieve forecast financial results. It can be reasonably concluded that as Chairman of the Company, Mr Pathirana has been prudent in his judgments and has successfully discharged his primary duties towards shareholders of the company, for which he is accountable.

Now ... the entertainment side .

At the opening day of trading of Softlogic shares ,ie on 12 th July , the price came down to Rs 16/ - levels , and closed @ around Rs 18 /- .
As to our knowledge, after the IPO closing date ,Mr Pathirana / Softlogic has not done any thing to adversely affect the share price of the company. We are all fully aware share price of a particular stock on a particular day , is decided by various factors, ( including happenings in Greece ...as fully described in the posts/ comments in the Forum).

So I am still confused ,... is there any basis to criticize.. , blame.. , ridicule.. Mr Pathiran's decisions . ?

Can you clarify, taking into account above facts ?

The second point.

To ur second question, I'm not saying only knowledgeable ppl should do share trading, any1 can.. only difference is ppl who dont study the share market and invest may need help from someone else otherwise u know where the dumb money goes..


May be you are not saying,..... But I am strongly saying , only those who are knowledgeable in risks and returns , and willing to take a calculated risk, in anticipation a return ( above risk free return ) at a future date, should deal in shares . . I don't think any one can depend on help from someone . Who is this someone ?
Brokering company Advisors ? stock brokers ? "Experts ' of this Forum ? If I get their advice and loose money what's their accountability ?
(That's why mutual funds are there .)



Last edited by Monster on Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Removed unwated spaces)

13 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:04 am

Chinwi

avatar
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Somehow he won again. Bought @ 20 and it is 27.30 now. ?

14 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:03 pm

smallville

avatar
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Liber Abaci,

I can understand ur frustration as ur view is and ur motive is just to point out somehow or other that Mr. Pathirage's IPO pricing decision of 29 is correct.
As I was and have to keep saying I dont oppose any investment decision of the said director.. I dont see any rational behind the Rs.29 IPO pricing
even if he argues by staying upside down Wink U might've seen many seniors in this forum even expressed their views on this overpriced
IPO.
So if big Fund Managers , Institutional investors and individual investors wanted to apply for this IPO, I feel sorry for them, on the contrary; Fund Managers , Institutional investors might be looking at the broad picture in med-long term holding.. so they dont have any issue losing money now as their time period is long and anything can happen.. But they could've opted to buy from this PP cheaper than 29, haven't they? Even from the grey market @ 24... So we should not forget that even big investors like Warren buffet had done billion dollar mistakes.. so this is a peanut in that case..
So I dont wanna reinterate the same thing again n again n again - N * M times..

Yes IPO was oversubscribed, haven't any recent IPO? Even EXPO Lanka IPO with so much debate over the controversial PP they had done got oversubscribe.. So should we argue that Sri Lankan ppl dont use heads when it comes to IPOs specially? If a bankrupt company is allowed to raise funds thru an IPO, that can also get oversubscribed in here Wink.. Yes the company's primary target was met @ the mercy of poor souls..

AS u strongly saying, ppl who have above avg knowledge on markets should deal in securities.. Yes agree...On the contrary it doesn't mean other ppl can't succeed.. With good advices (provided that they get it) they may.. But ppl with knowledge can manage their portfolios on their own..

You ask "If I get some1's advice and loose money what's their accountability ?"
If ur a person who has little knowledge on markets do u have any accountability towards ur money if you follow ur instics and failed?
May be listening to some seniors or knowledgable ppl may minimise ur losses in that instance, so at least have u not better off with them?
Nobody can always win.. rather than being alone isn't it bad that u have some help?

However I should refrain from further educational activities on this subject. May be I suck at teaching Wink also I dont wanna waste time
defending a director's decision when he's already won securing his investment looking at the current price..
I pity the poor investors who didnt wanna check the prospectors and fallen to a trap so that they have to wait than the expected time at least to get the break even passed..

15 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:23 pm

econ

avatar
Global Moderator
Pathirage dude buy SHL every day .. anyone have any idea on how he finance .. I am sure this bugger may have used IPO money..


_________________

--------------------
This is not buying\selling recommendation. Do your own analysis before take any decision

16 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:35 pm

Rajaraam


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
econ,

I believe no legal provision for CEO/Director to use Company funds By their names. Even to borrow a large amount of money a resolution should have beeen passed by the shareholders. Isn't it?

17 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:38 pm

player

avatar
Moderator
he is the man,although i lost considerably in SHL,still he doing best in his capacity, Very Happy
SHL-this share cant be manipulate easily,so he will do best until pass 29 line

18 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:45 pm

econ

avatar
Global Moderator
@Rajaraam wrote:econ,

I believe no legal provision for CEO/Director to use Company funds By their names. Even to borrow a large amount of money a resolution should have beeen passed by the shareholders. Isn't it?

yeah thats the rule.. but who knows what he is doing.. he buy every day to push up shl.


_________________

--------------------
This is not buying\selling recommendation. Do your own analysis before take any decision

19 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:13 pm

smallville

avatar
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@econ wrote:
@Rajaraam wrote:econ,

I believe no legal provision for CEO/Director to use Company funds By their names. Even to borrow a large amount of money a resolution should have beeen passed by the shareholders. Isn't it?

yeah thats the rule.. but who knows what he is doing.. he buy every day to push up shl.

I dont think he has any problem of convincing a bank to finance him with his credibility. He's a born risk taker as I've heard Wink But what hes doing is good at least for their employees to get the money back..

20 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:22 pm

Liber Abaci


Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
@smallville wrote:Liber Abaci,
......So I dont wanna reinterate the same thing again n again n again - N * M times..
......However I should refrain from further educational activities on this subject. May be I suck at teaching Wink also I dont wanna waste time
.
Hope you are not offended. May be our line of thinking ....are in different directions.
I was eagerly awaiting your views . Thanks for the fruitful discussion.

21 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:30 pm

smallville

avatar
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@Liber Abaci wrote:
@smallville wrote:Liber Abaci,
......So I dont wanna reinterate the same thing again n again n again - N * M times..
......However I should refrain from further educational activities on this subject. May be I suck at teaching Wink also I dont wanna waste time
.
Hope you are not offended. May be our line of thinking ....are in different directions.
I was eagerly awaiting your views . Thanks for the fruitful discussion.

None taken Wink I've already given my views..
like I said, I stand on my policy - not to subscribe for any IPO if there's so much of controversy..

U can see the no of posts in this forum regarding the up coming IPO, CIFL.. I hope this will get oversubscribe too.. Wink But I may be wrong.. ppl may have learnt good lessons from EXPO & SHL.. Twisted Evil

22 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:53 am

limestone

avatar
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
Mr pathirage bought SHL average @24.20. and created a demad . people rushed in to buy and now SHL trading at 27 level may be he can sell at 26.50 . because people will think that its a bargain price . then he can buy agian at may be 29 ? . Now look, he needed some capital only once to start a chain rection !

23 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:12 pm

salt

avatar
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@Rajaraam wrote:econ,

I believe no legal provision for CEO/Director to use Company funds By their names. Even to borrow a large amount of money a resolution should have beeen passed by the shareholders. Isn't it?

Provided that if they wer true corporates!

24 Re: In defense of Mr. Ashok Pathirage on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:35 am

Soundchips


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
need to observe sustainability for few more days...

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